Session Start

Session Start: Mon Oct 14 19:53:24 2002

Session Ident: #philosophy

[19:53] *** Now talking in #philosophy

[19:53] <larchie> Hi Danny

[19:53] <frady> Hello Dr. Archie

[19:54] <larchie> Did you have any questions or will you wait for others to join?

[19:54] <frady> Just a couple

[19:54] <larchie> ok

[19:55] <frady> One is that I am making sure I wrote what you said in class correctly

[19:55] <frady> The belief and Attitude section is not going to be on the test?

[19:55] <larchie> right

[19:55] <larchie> just the fallacies

[19:55] <frady> Ok

[19:57] <frady> Second, can you give me a sure fire way of keeping the converse accident and the accident from being confused?

[19:58] <larchie> just remember the specificness of the conclusion if ..

[19:58] <larchie> the conclusion is more specific, its accident

[19:58] <larchie> if the conclusion is more general, it's converse accident.

[19:59] <frady> I did some of the practice problems and those were beating on me...

[20:00] <larchie> Try to see the structure of the fallacies as in the syllabus in the exact examples on the Web

[20:00] <larchie> simply study the relation between the two

[20:00] <larchie> your flash cards should also have examples when you study with them.

[20:01] <frady> Ok, Thanks! What about the emotive signifiance? Do you plan to have any of those on the test?

[20:02] <larchie> no

[20:02] <frady> Cool!

[20:03] <frady> As you saw on my fallacy of presumption quiz, I need to study.

[20:03] <larchie> yes, that quiz should have been straightforward

[20:04] <frady> Exactly, I plan to make much improvement for tomorrow!

[20:04] <larchie> great!

[20:04] <frady> This should be a straight forward test with just the fallacies, right?

[20:05] <larchie> Yes, I think it's a bit more involved than the questions on

[20:05] <larchie> the Great American Fallacy Contest but

[20:05] <larchie> you do get two guesses.

[20:06] <frady> That is great! You have answered my questions, but I plan to stay connected for a little while....

[20:07] <larchie> sure.. there probably will be some others within the next few minutes

[20:07] <frady> Thanks for clearing up a few things for me.

[20:09] *** Mark has joined #philosophy

[20:10] <larchie> Hi Mark

[20:10] <frady> Hello Mark

[20:11] <larchie> any questions about the fallacies

[20:11] *** MrAnalyt has joined #philosophy

[20:11] <MrAnalyt> Brb...head call

[20:11] Could You Explain the difference between an Arguement and a complex aruegument

[20:12] <larchie> I not sure what you mean..

[20:12] <larchie> are you thinking of the fallacy of complex question?

[20:13] I mean Accident and converse Accident

[20:14] <larchie> ok--the question is what is the difference between accident and converse accident?

[20:14] Yes

[20:15] <larchie> after looking at the syllabus definitions and the definitions on the Website I can't improve

[20:15] <larchie> on those structures. In particular, is there something about those definitions

[20:16] <larchie> that is unclear? Or are you looking for a simple

[20:16] <larchie> way to distinguish between them?

[20:17] Is an accident narrow to general or is it reversed

[20:17] *** suwillia has joined #philosophy

[20:17] <larchie> the name comes from the kind of conclusion--if the conclusion is

[20:18] <larchie> an accidental instance, a particular, or a specific one then

[20:18] <larchie> the fallacy is accident--If the conclusion is accidental, it's accident

[20:19] <larchie> If the conclusion is general based on several instances, then it's hasty

[20:19] <larchie> generalization or converse accident. I.e., specific instances as premisses to

[20:19] <larchie> a general conclusion.

[20:20] OK that helps

[20:20] <larchie> So, the fallacy of considering certain exceptional cases and generalizing to a rule that fits them alone is converse accident

[20:20] <larchie> and Accident: the fallacy of applying a general rule to a particular case whose special circumstances render the rule inapplicable

[20:21] <frady> Dr. Archie I have another question....

[20:21] <MrAnalyt> OK I am in line....

[20:21] <larchie> go ...

[20:21] <frady> You said you are going to have two answers for each question

[20:22] <larchie> not exactly--you choose two answers from all possible answers

[20:22] <frady> Is one of the questions going to be NOT a FALLACY, if it is not a fallacy?

[20:22] <larchie> yes

[20:22] <frady> Thank You....

[20:22] <larchie> sure

[20:22] <MrAnalyt> OK who is next?

[20:23] <larchie> anyone at anytime--no special order..

[20:23] <larchie> In chat many times there are several questions and answers going on interlaced

[20:23] <MrAnalyt> ok anyone object to me having a couple of q's?

[20:23] <larchie> go ahead

[20:23] <MrAnalyt> alright

[20:23] <MrAnalyt> I vaguely recall you saying in class that part of the test material is being omitted due to a poor test showing..is this correct?

[20:23] <larchie> yes

[20:24] <MrAnalyt> which part is that again?

[20:24] <larchie> agreements and disagreements in belief and attitude

[20:24] <MrAnalyt> ok..one more...

[20:24] <larchie> Just fallacies are covered

[20:24] <MrAnalyt> could you briefly list what IS cvered on the test

[20:24] <MrAnalyt> ok just fallacies

[20:24] <larchie> just the fallacies

[20:24] <MrAnalyt> fallacies of relevance?

[20:25] <larchie> and fallacies of presumption

[20:25] <MrAnalyt> ok..mult choice..fill in the blanks..or matching?

[20:25] <MrAnalyt> or definitions?

[20:25] <larchie> the complete list is in the syllabus, online, and in the text

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:26] <larchie> example questions like the test online

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> the format is also?

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:26] Is the test like the GAM contest

[20:26] <larchie> it's a multiple choice

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> i take it we are not going to be alowed to use our flash cards for this one?

[20:26] <MrAnalyt> :-)

[20:26] <larchie> the examples are a bit more difficult than the GAF contest

[20:27] <larchie> No--even if you promise to carry them with you the rest of your life

[20:27] <MrAnalyt> what if i have them bronzed???lol just kidding

[20:27] <MrAnalyt> see you later

[20:27] *** suwillia has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:27] <larchie> ok

[20:28] <larchie> be sure to check out the practice exercises at http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/fall_rev.html

[20:29] <larchie> an email has a complete list of many pages of exercises--check the logichelp archives

[20:29] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:29] <MrAnalyt> are any of these printable with answers?

[20:29] <MrAnalyt> to use as study sheets...

[20:30] <larchie> i don't recall

[20:30] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:30] <MrAnalyt> i'll check

[20:30] <MrAnalyt> i am finished now..someone else may have the floor

[20:30] <MrAnalyt> or the screen...

[20:30] I will check back a little later

[20:30] *** Mark has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:31] <MrAnalyt> fallacy of ignorance...mark left the room, so he is ready for the exam...

[20:31] <larchie> study sheet is at http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/fall_rev_answers.html with answers

[20:31] <MrAnalyt> ok thanks

[20:32] <larchie> http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/fallacy_answers.html are the printable answers for the test

[20:32] <MrAnalyt> ok thanks

[20:32] <MrAnalyt> i will check them out

[20:33] <larchie> there's an incredible number of quizzes for practice, but I don't think you can print them out with answers

[20:33] <larchie> see http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/quizzes.html

[20:34] <frady> The way I did the quiz, was to not answer any of them and click to get the score and it shows the answers at the bottom....

[20:34] <MrAnalyt> ok good idea

[20:34] <frady> then you can print them out...

[20:34] <MrAnalyt> cool

[20:35] <MrAnalyt> ok i think i have all i can handle..see you all later

[20:35] <larchie> It's more effective if you study first, then do the questions withou answers then check the answers

[20:35] <MrAnalyt> ok

[20:35] <frady> This is true!

[20:35] <larchie> I'm talking from the point of view of the psychological research of student learning

[20:35] <MrAnalyt> i think i am somewhat comfortable with the material as it is...(famous last words of a fool)

[20:36] <MrAnalyt> later taters

[20:36] <larchie> things do look easy when you know the answers--I heartily recommend not studying backwards

[20:36] <larchie> later ...

[20:36] *** MrAnalyt has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:37] <larchie> well, I guess it's just you and me Danny--how do you think you will do?

[20:37] <frady> We will see

[20:37] <frady> I plan to do well

[20:38] <larchie> I think you can get a good idea by doing the test online withou notes

[20:38] <frady> Ok thanks

[20:38] <frady> I guess I will see you in the morning

[20:39] <frady> Bye!

[20:39] *** frady has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:39] <larchie> see you tomorrow

[20:39] <larchie> The Chat is Open ....

[20:44] <larchie> The Chat is open ...

[20:47] <larchie> The Chat is closing ...

Session Close: Mon Oct 14 20:59:10 2002