Session Start: Sun Mar 02 19:52:47 2003

Session Ident: #philosophy

[19:52] *** Now talking in #philosophy

[19:53] <larchie> The Scientific Reasoning Chat is open ...

[19:57] <larchie> The chat is open ...

[19:58] *** Sandy has joined #philosophy

[19:58] *** Sandy has quit IRC (Leaving)

[19:59] <larchie> The chat is open

[20:00] *** Sandy has joined #philosophy

[20:01] <larchie> Hi Sandy you are the only person is chat now ...

[20:01] <larchie> Do you have any questions?

[20:01] <Sandy> yeah...i missed class on friday, what did we do?

[20:02] <larchie> We reviewed criticisms of definitions and reviewed for the test tomorrow.

[20:02] <Sandy> is that the stuff in the book with the rules?

[20:03] <larchie> The rules for definition by genus and difference--yes

[20:03] <Sandy> ok, so do you just have the tell which rules they are not following?

[20:04] <larchie> I'm not sure what you mean. The rule is either followed or it isn't.

[20:04] <larchie> If the definition is circular, it breaks a rule.

[20:05] <larchie> If it's needlessly obscure or figurative, it's not a good definition

[20:05] <larchie> etc ...

[20:05] <larchie> Is this what you are asking?

[20:05] <Sandy> well, when they give you the definition, what would be an example of the answer?

[20:05] <Sandy> you know what i am trying to say?

[20:06] <larchie> It depends on what is asked. Are you looking at ...

[20:06] <larchie> a homework set?

[20:06] <larchie> I.e., if you are given...

[20:06] <larchie> a definition you might be asked to ...

[20:06] <larchie> tell what kind of definition it is...

[20:07] <larchie> or you might be asked to tell it's purpose..

[20:07] <larchie> or you could be asked to tell if its extensional

[20:07] <larchie> or intensional, etc.

[20:07] <Sandy> ok, we are talking about the definition by genus and difference questions right?

[20:08] <larchie> That's just one kind or one way to define terms.

[20:08] <larchie> There are many others as well. I'm trying to

[20:08] <larchie> get a handle on what you question is.

[20:09] <larchie> You have asked what would be the answer but

[20:09] <larchie> I don't know what the question is.

[20:10] <Sandy> ok, well i was just reading my book and i think i have the answer

[20:10] <larchie> What part of the chapter are you reading?

[20:10] <Sandy> what i was asking is on the definition by genus and difference questions...are you just suppose to answer what rule it violates?

[20:10] <Sandy> 4.5

[20:11] <Sandy> is what rules it violates the answer?

[20:11] <larchie> If that is what the question asks. I.e., if that is asked in the instructions.

[20:11] <larchie> You would name rule itself, not the number. I.e.,

[20:11] <larchie> if your were asked to criticise definitions

[20:12] <larchie> by genus and difference, then you would...

[20:12] <larchie> see why its not a good definition and ..

[20:12] <larchie> state that the reason it's not good is that it's

[20:12] <larchie> circular, or negative where it could be positive,

[20:12] <larchie> and so forth.

[20:12] <Sandy> ok

[20:13] <larchie> Most of the exercises in the book that deal

[20:13] <larchie> with genus and diff criticism violate more than

[20:13] <larchie> one rule. If that 's the case then just

[20:13] <larchie> mention the main one -- or any one.

[20:15] <Sandy> ok...so we don't have the mention all of them?

[20:15] <larchie> For only one definition--no, just the main problem.

[20:16] <larchie> Obviously, you might mention all of them in different problems.

[20:16] <Sandy> ok, so just one of the rules?

[20:16] <larchie> per probem -- yes

[20:17] <Sandy> ok

[20:21] <Sandy> well, i am talking to Kalyn now..who is in our class too but she can't get the chat to open because she doesn't have java or something...she wants to know about the project, she doesn't know exactly what we have to do...read an article and write about it or what?

[20:22] <larchie> The chat is for test review. The project is discussed

[20:22] <larchie> in the syllabus and online. Check the list of

[20:22] <larchie> topics accessible from the homepage of scientific

[20:22] <larchie> reasoning.

[20:23] <larchie> http://philosophy.lander.edu/scireas/project.html

[20:23] <larchie> is where the ideas are listed online

[20:23] <larchie> with links to some example projects--also

[20:23] <larchie> there is an intro in the paper section of the

[20:23] <larchie> message board.

[20:24] *** joey has joined #philosophy

[20:24] <joey> hello everybody!!!!!

[20:25] <larchie> Hi joey

[20:25] <larchie> More on projects would be

[20:25] <larchie> Some Suggestions for Posting Papers

[20:25] <larchie> 1. Type your paper with your usual word-processing program. Do not hit the "Enter" key at the end of a line but allow your text to "word-wrap."

[20:25] <larchie> 2. Save your paper first as a Word Document File: .doc. Print a hard-copy.

[20:25] <larchie> 3. Next save your paper as a Text Only File: .txt. The text-only file is to be used for online posting.

[20:25] <larchie> 3. Paste a copy of your .txt paper into the Message Body Box of the msforum Paper List for your class.

[20:25] <larchie> 4. Adjust spacing or introduce line breaks between paragraphs for clarity in reading.

[20:25] <larchie> 5. Be sure to sign your name at the

[20:25] <larchie> But as you can see this is not the place for

[20:25] *** You were kicked by Guardian (flood)

Session Close: Sun Mar 02 20:25:37 2003

Session Start: Sun Mar 02 20:27:00 2003

Session Ident: #philosophy

[20:27] *** Now talking in #philosophy

[20:27] <larchie> Sorry, someone just kicked me out of chat.

[20:27] <joey> it's cool

[20:28] <larchie> actually, not so cool, I thought I have that

[20:28] <larchie> covered with a Guardian program.

[20:28] <larchie> Someone knows more about IRC than I do.

[20:28] <joey> I really understand all of this internet stuff we have to do

[20:29] <larchie> Do you have any questions about the SR test?

[20:29] <joey> I really don't understand the internet stuff

[20:30] <larchie> That's a bit too vague for me--are you talking about course content for the test?

[20:30] <larchie> or are you talking about how to use the srhelp,

[20:30] <larchie> message boards, etc?

[20:30] <joey> anything on the internet, for instance the web practice sheets

[20:31] <larchie> I was hoping students would stop by the logic lab for help.

[20:32] <larchie> I found that most students didn't go to the step by step instruction in the Requirements section of the syllabus.

[20:32] <larchie> But they just tried to wing it.

[20:32] <joey> i did that

[20:32] <joey> i think

[20:33] <joey> but i didn't turn it in

[20:33] <larchie> It works for people who have been used to computers most of their life

[20:33] <larchie> but most others have to follow the step-by-step or

[20:33] <larchie> get help from someone.

[20:33] <larchie> Does anyone have questions concerning the test?

[20:34] <joey> peter is on his way over here to study for the test

[20:34] <joey> I will get him to help me

[20:34] <joey> not so far

[20:34] <larchie> Review the fallacy definitions as much as you can.

[20:35] <larchie> Sandy did you get the outline for the test from someon?

[20:35] <larchie> someone ..

[20:35] <Sandy> no

[20:35] <larchie> I don't have it with me, but as I remember the first part

[20:35] <larchie> is the purpose of definitions,

[20:36] <larchie> the second part is the identification of definitions

[20:36] <larchie> the third part is criticism by means of the rule

[20:36] <larchie> by genus and difference--

[20:36] <larchie> the last part is about 40-50 fallacies like

[20:36] <larchie> those on the Great American Fallacy Contest.

[20:36] <joey> questions?

[20:37] <larchie> ???

[20:37] <joey> last part-40-50 questions on fallacies?

[20:37] <larchie> yes

[20:37] <joey> ok

[20:38] <larchie> Most persons finish the test in about 30-40 minutes

[20:38] <larchie> but some persons stay and go over their answers several times.

[20:38] <joey> well, peter is here, so we are studying

[20:38] <joey> thanks for the help

[20:38] <joey> see y'all tomorrow

[20:38] <joey> good luck snady

[20:38] <larchie> Sure, does Pete have any questions?

[20:39] <joey> nope

[20:39] <Sandy> thanks joey, good luck to you too

[20:39] <joey> bye y'all

[20:39] <larchie> bye

[20:39] <Sandy> bye

[20:39] *** joey has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:39] <larchie> bye

[20:39] <Sandy> well i got to go too...thanks for the help

[20:39] <larchie> Sure if you think of something before 9:00, I'll be here

[20:39] <larchie> bye

[20:40] *** Rwickey has joined #philosophy

[20:40] <larchie> Hi Rebecca

[20:40] <Rwickey> hi Dr. archie

[20:40] <Sandy> thanks, bye

[20:40] <larchie> bye Sandy

[20:40] <Rwickey> by sandy

[20:40] <Sandy> bye

[20:41] <larchie> Do you have any questions?

[20:41] <larchie> There are some questions that you might want to

[20:41] <larchie> look at later when I post the log to

[20:41] *** Sandy has quit IRC (Leaving)

[20:41] <larchie> the Website

[20:41] <Rwickey> Sure, I'll make sure to check. I do have a question about the online quizzes on fallacies...

[20:42] <larchie> The log will be on the homepage

[20:42] <larchie> What's the quesiton?

[20:42] <Rwickey> may sound a little silly, but I want to make sure my common sense is correct...

[20:42] <larchie> sure

[20:43] <Rwickey> you have fallacy of division as the answer to some of the questions...this is the same as fallacy of false dichotomy, right?

[20:43] <larchie> no--the fallacy is division is the fallacy of ...

[20:43] <larchie> going from the properties of the whole of a class to ..

[20:43] <larchie> the properties of part of a class.

[20:44] <larchie> For example, if I were to argue that

[20:44] <larchie> since a computer is heavy all the parts of

[20:44] <larchie> the computer is heavy. or since the human

[20:44] <larchie> race doesn't end, the life of a human being

[20:44] <larchie> won't end either.

[20:44] <Rwickey> oh, I see..

[20:44] <larchie> False dichotomy is saying that there

[20:45] <larchie> are only two choices--good or bad; or you'r

[20:45] <larchie> you're either for me or against me--when

[20:45] <larchie> there are many more choices.

[20:45] <Rwickey> that's right...I remember now

[20:45] <larchie> Division is the opposite of composition.

[20:46] <larchie> I'm thinking false dichotomy is not covered on the fallacy test.

[20:46] <larchie> Maybe, an extra credit question, though--I'm not sure.

[20:46] <Rwickey> are you sure? you told us that false dichotomy, weak analogy, and slippery slope were being added

[20:47] <larchie> as possible extra credit ...

[20:47] <Rwickey> okay

[20:47] <larchie> If you miss them no points are deducted

[20:48] *** guest has joined #philosophy

[20:48] <guest> hey, this is joey and peter. we can't access the notes on the website. we also aren't sure about false dichotomy.

[20:49] <larchie> False dichotomy is only there for extra-credit

[20:50] <larchie> it's the fallacy where someone presupposes that there are only two choices when there are many more

[20:50] <larchie> For example, the most common one would be something like

[20:50] <larchie> you are either for war in Iraq or you are a coward.

[20:50] <larchie> There are many more choices.

[20:51] <guest> that's a pretty good example

[20:51] <larchie> It takes about 6-8 hours to put up one lecture on the web.

[20:51] <guest> thank you

[20:51] <guest> is weak analogy and slippery slope also just extra credit?

[20:51] <larchie> According to the logs, no one has accessed the notes, so I haven't uploaded them.

[20:52] <guest> pete tried

[20:52] <larchie> Yes, for slippery slope etc.

[20:52] <larchie> There are about half of the fallacies up however.

[20:52] <larchie> Also check the quizzes and tests--although some of the fallacies

[20:52] <larchie> are answered with the latin names rather than the

[20:53] <larchie> English names we used.

[20:53] <Rwickey> will we need to know the latin names for the exam?

[20:54] <larchie> No

[20:54] <larchie> I just reviewed the test online and

[20:54] <larchie> the test you will take tomorrow looks very similar

[20:54] <larchie> except there is no tree diagram.

[20:55] <Rwickey> that's good...I was about to ask about that

[20:55] <larchie> Be sure to do the online quizzes

[20:56] <Rwickey> I am also having trouble understanding the slippery slope fallacy, the example in the book is not very clear to me

[20:57] <larchie> The idea is that one starts down a hill pointing out how one thing will lead to another until you get

[20:57] <larchie> to a point that's unacceptable.

[20:57] <Rwickey> could you give examples of causal vs. logical?

[20:57] <larchie> E.g., if you let teachers lecture freely,

[20:58] <larchie> the first thing you know they will tell stories

[20:58] <larchie> about their families, and then they will get

[20:58] <larchie> off the subject and we will learn nothing.

[20:58] <larchie> So you shouldn't let teachers lecture freely.

[20:59] <larchie> Ie. one thing leads to another until one gets to an unacceptable point.

[20:59] <larchie> Any last questions before Chat closes?

[21:00] <Rwickey> is it important to know logical vs. causal slippery slope fallacies?

[21:01] <larchie> I don't understand. Slippery slope is

[21:02] <larchie> one fallacy, there are others. you should know

[21:02] <larchie> as many fallacies as possible.

[21:02] <larchie> Is this what you are asking?

[21:02] <Rwickey> it is discussed in the text..pg 124..

[21:02] <larchie> By "it" you mean "slippery slope"?

[21:03] <Rwickey> yes, that there are two types of slippery slope fallacies,

[21:03] <larchie> There's no need to learn slipperly slope--it's not covered on the test

[21:03] <Rwickey> okay, thank you for your help

[21:03] <larchie> You're welcome

[21:04] <Rwickey> good night

[21:04] <larchie> bye

[21:04] *** Rwickey has quit IRC (Leaving)

[21:04] <larchie> Any last questions?

[21:04] <larchie> Chat is closing ...

[21:05] <larchie> Chat is closed--bye

Session Close: Sun Mar 02 21:05:33 2003